Thank you for this. I’m so stressed out about this fuckery everyday. I couldn’t log into my loan servicer’s website this week, it just flat out would not work, and the phone wait time was two hours. It’s complete misery.
Yeah it’s bonkers. They make it hard on purpose. Then expect everyone to just roll over and pay whatever they say. I think collections are going to result in yet more lawsuits and more injunctions. It’s just a mess. But try not to stress out over it. It’s just money…
Thank you for this, William. Not just the information, but the pep talk too. I am in that group of tens of millions who is signed up for repayment under the SAVE plan, and am in flux. I'm just waiting to see how it all shakes out. One thing: You mentioned bankruptcy, but I thought federal student loans are one of the few debts that cannot be dismissed by bankruptcy. I keep hoping they'll sell our debt to a private entity so we can declare bankruptcy on them. 😉 I'm willing to pay back what I borrowed, it's the fact that my balance has doubled due to interest that pisses me off. Why is there interest on federal student loans?! Why should we have to pay more for our education than those who can afford to pay out of pocket?
Student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy but not automatically. You need to file a separate claim in what’s called an adversarial proceeding. It’s its own process and has its own standards for dismissal of the debts. I’m not an expert but I do know that the debts can be discharged.
It’s not an easy process… you have to show that you cannot meaningfully pay the debt and maintain a standard of living. But if you’re looking at a Chapter 7 bankruptcy… and you’re in that type of a proceeding.. it may be an option. It is a possibility. It’s just not automatic like other debts.
Most websites who describe the process recommend you get a well educated lawyer. Biden laid out guidelines for the court system to streamline the undue hardship criteria qualifications because some courts were far more lenient than others. As a result, more people were successfully discharging student loan debt. It's also possible for the judge to run against the government so if the government is like meh, we don't wanna, the judge can say, meh, I want too. My research shows the judge wins if that happens. I've seen some really interesting cases on debts that have been discharged but it's loopy because not all courts run the same benevolence.
My initial debt was $23,00, give or take. After a decade of allowing myself to be talk into forbearances, followed by more than a decade of regular payments on income based repayment plans, I now owe almost $90,000, with the amount escalating monthly.
There is no end to this.
Yeah, I signed the forms. I made the debt. I paid back the principal ages ago. It’s interest on interest now with no end.
But making a deal with a loan shark is still making a bad deal.
We deserve the option to legally renegotiate these bad contracts.
The particulars of my situation are relevant only in as much as others are in similar situations.
Thanks for your insights and suggestions on this.
We should consider a national protest or action of some kind.
When I read your first rant, I pretty much ran over to student aid and my loan servicer to capture all the data I could. I was shocked when I logged onto my studentaid.gov account. They literally had nothing in the documents section. I talked to my service provider who told me they don't have it, I needed to go to studentaid.gov and get it. I responded they didn't have it and they had to have a copy of it. I asked them if I had to pay since there was no contract. Got a response they put in a request and I should receive it in the mail - that was weeks ago. I'm so pissed. I'm trapped in the SAVE shit - trapped while the loan capitalizes further. At some level that doesn't matter - it's just the notion I'm fucked by the situation - the choices of politicians who have small egos and big pie holes mesmerized by spectacle pandering to people with little minds, even smaller hearts, and simple brains. I'm sick of being told I made a choice and it's all my fault while the loan shark fuckery foos with the system to make it more complicated and time consuming while chanting the mantra that private means efficient. I now laugh at the efficiency drug. I refused to be ashamed. Thank you for writing about this.
Strange about the documents - my husband and I are also in the SAVE boat but all of ours are there (4 in total). You have to hit a drop down on the documents page to get them. I hope you get yours soon!
OK, hi. I read your piece last time and even replied to it—thanks for all of that!
I went on my service providers site (nelnet) and I couldn’t find my MPN but I did find my credit letter thing that definitely has the Department of Education on it. I’m guessing that’s probably not enough so I will try to get my MPN now.
However, I know someone who is now getting a bill for a $1200/month on a loan that’s less than $60,000, and that person definitely can’t pay that amount. So they did the income driven repayment and it’s still exorbitant, but almost manageable. A new question: Until all of this is resolved, should that person, or anyone in that situation, be paying a nominal amount, like $1 or $50 or something in between, just to show good faith while we’re all waiting for our master promissory notes? That person was concerned that even going onto the site would be giving them permission to move their loan or to collect. I hope I didn’t erroneously advised that person that that couldn’t be the case.
You’re fantastic, by the way! Please keep keeping us informed!
I am going to make another demand for my MPN. If I don't get any reply the second time...
Hmm... I might then have my lawyer make the demand with a letter to the Ruth's Chris waitress... see if I can get some of that A-1 sauce she keeps blathering on about. :)
Dang, two "rants" one month apart? This is great info! Yes, I read the first one. This time, I forwarded this to my email so it doesn't get lost in the Substack shuffle.
I signed for two parent loans...or shall I say, grandparent loans? Two of the worst decisions of my life; I'll just count it as one. One loan is in forbearance, and I've been in communication some with one of the kids, now grown. The other I could legally transfer to the other grown kid's name. It's complicated, family issues don't you know.
But whatever happens on that front, I will definitely have this at the ready. And have some fun with it while I'm at it. Why not? Isn't toppling empires supposed to be fun?
Out of curiosity, I also requested my mpn after checking the student aid website and finding absolutely nothing. I emailed Nelnet, and they kindly referred me to go find it myself on the student aid site.... 🧐🤔🧐
I have a court order that states the Department of Education/Nelnet doesn’t have a valid claim on me, yet they keep trying to collect and now all 4 CRs are reporting me late. I have sent Notices Of Intent to Sue to all of them, 30 day time limit, 21 days ago (certified mail return receipt signage required) and so far their only response by 2 of the CRs is “we have received your dispute” but nothing more. I will be filing in federal court in 10 more days on any defendants who haven’t settled with me. Causes of Action include FCRA against the CRSs (2 years of monthly reporting on 8 credit lines), FDCPA and fraud against Nelnet. I would be pleased to keep you updated on this if you would like me to. Western District Of Arkansas.
Err, showing that a loan was disbursed merely shows that a payment was made. It says nothing about why or on what basis the payment was made. In particular it does not show that the recipient is indebted to the payee.
FYI, you can download your MPN from studentaid.gov. Your servicer doesn't have it.
Additionally, as of right now, only those who are in default are going to be sent to collections. Those who are in forbearance aren't, but payments are supposed to resume soon. While I don't trust anything the administration says and it's all a slippery slope, it's important to note that those who are in forbearance but not default are "ok"... for now.
Thanks for the post though - I finally went and downloaded mine along with a bunch of other related records.
When I worked in collections it was a rule of they can't get a hold of you and your untraceable they can't do anything until they do get a hold of you .. So no such number ...no such phone rule works as well as just say I don't know that person ....wrong number . Or even say I've told you before I don't know who this is . And just got this # a couple of weeks ago . Then see if they really know what their even doing or know your debt amts
Thank you for this. I’m so stressed out about this fuckery everyday. I couldn’t log into my loan servicer’s website this week, it just flat out would not work, and the phone wait time was two hours. It’s complete misery.
Yeah it’s bonkers. They make it hard on purpose. Then expect everyone to just roll over and pay whatever they say. I think collections are going to result in yet more lawsuits and more injunctions. It’s just a mess. But try not to stress out over it. It’s just money…
I was able to download MPNs from studentaid.gov
Thank you for this, William. Not just the information, but the pep talk too. I am in that group of tens of millions who is signed up for repayment under the SAVE plan, and am in flux. I'm just waiting to see how it all shakes out. One thing: You mentioned bankruptcy, but I thought federal student loans are one of the few debts that cannot be dismissed by bankruptcy. I keep hoping they'll sell our debt to a private entity so we can declare bankruptcy on them. 😉 I'm willing to pay back what I borrowed, it's the fact that my balance has doubled due to interest that pisses me off. Why is there interest on federal student loans?! Why should we have to pay more for our education than those who can afford to pay out of pocket?
Student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy but not automatically. You need to file a separate claim in what’s called an adversarial proceeding. It’s its own process and has its own standards for dismissal of the debts. I’m not an expert but I do know that the debts can be discharged.
I don’t think I’m alone in knowing that I’ve been told since high school that student loan debt ABSOLUTELY CANNOT be discharged through bankruptcy.
Not until you said it have I ever heard that it can be.
It’s not an easy process… you have to show that you cannot meaningfully pay the debt and maintain a standard of living. But if you’re looking at a Chapter 7 bankruptcy… and you’re in that type of a proceeding.. it may be an option. It is a possibility. It’s just not automatic like other debts.
Huh. Well, okay. I'll leave that card in the "worst case scenario" file. :) Thanks!!
Most websites who describe the process recommend you get a well educated lawyer. Biden laid out guidelines for the court system to streamline the undue hardship criteria qualifications because some courts were far more lenient than others. As a result, more people were successfully discharging student loan debt. It's also possible for the judge to run against the government so if the government is like meh, we don't wanna, the judge can say, meh, I want too. My research shows the judge wins if that happens. I've seen some really interesting cases on debts that have been discharged but it's loopy because not all courts run the same benevolence.
Interesting! Thanks! Hopefully it won't come to that, but it's good to know. :)
My initial debt was $23,00, give or take. After a decade of allowing myself to be talk into forbearances, followed by more than a decade of regular payments on income based repayment plans, I now owe almost $90,000, with the amount escalating monthly.
There is no end to this.
Yeah, I signed the forms. I made the debt. I paid back the principal ages ago. It’s interest on interest now with no end.
But making a deal with a loan shark is still making a bad deal.
We deserve the option to legally renegotiate these bad contracts.
The particulars of my situation are relevant only in as much as others are in similar situations.
Thanks for your insights and suggestions on this.
We should consider a national protest or action of some kind.
When I read your first rant, I pretty much ran over to student aid and my loan servicer to capture all the data I could. I was shocked when I logged onto my studentaid.gov account. They literally had nothing in the documents section. I talked to my service provider who told me they don't have it, I needed to go to studentaid.gov and get it. I responded they didn't have it and they had to have a copy of it. I asked them if I had to pay since there was no contract. Got a response they put in a request and I should receive it in the mail - that was weeks ago. I'm so pissed. I'm trapped in the SAVE shit - trapped while the loan capitalizes further. At some level that doesn't matter - it's just the notion I'm fucked by the situation - the choices of politicians who have small egos and big pie holes mesmerized by spectacle pandering to people with little minds, even smaller hearts, and simple brains. I'm sick of being told I made a choice and it's all my fault while the loan shark fuckery foos with the system to make it more complicated and time consuming while chanting the mantra that private means efficient. I now laugh at the efficiency drug. I refused to be ashamed. Thank you for writing about this.
Strange about the documents - my husband and I are also in the SAVE boat but all of ours are there (4 in total). You have to hit a drop down on the documents page to get them. I hope you get yours soon!
I have no documents listed. It’s like it never happened in my document file. The debt I owe is clearly still present, lol.
OK, hi. I read your piece last time and even replied to it—thanks for all of that!
I went on my service providers site (nelnet) and I couldn’t find my MPN but I did find my credit letter thing that definitely has the Department of Education on it. I’m guessing that’s probably not enough so I will try to get my MPN now.
However, I know someone who is now getting a bill for a $1200/month on a loan that’s less than $60,000, and that person definitely can’t pay that amount. So they did the income driven repayment and it’s still exorbitant, but almost manageable. A new question: Until all of this is resolved, should that person, or anyone in that situation, be paying a nominal amount, like $1 or $50 or something in between, just to show good faith while we’re all waiting for our master promissory notes? That person was concerned that even going onto the site would be giving them permission to move their loan or to collect. I hope I didn’t erroneously advised that person that that couldn’t be the case.
You’re fantastic, by the way! Please keep keeping us informed!
I can’t give you advice on what to do in terms of how to negotiate or what to pay. Sorry.
Asking for your documents, however, should t be a prejudicial act.
Powerful piece, William. I hope you sue the frauds and get your student loans forgiven when they can’t show the paperwork.
I'm not likely to sue.
I am going to make another demand for my MPN. If I don't get any reply the second time...
Hmm... I might then have my lawyer make the demand with a letter to the Ruth's Chris waitress... see if I can get some of that A-1 sauce she keeps blathering on about. :)
lol A1 sauce lady :)
I forwarded your piece to a friend with escalating student loans. Thanks for sharing your journey.
Let’s see if the DoE can find your MPN or if doge vapourized it.
Dang, two "rants" one month apart? This is great info! Yes, I read the first one. This time, I forwarded this to my email so it doesn't get lost in the Substack shuffle.
I signed for two parent loans...or shall I say, grandparent loans? Two of the worst decisions of my life; I'll just count it as one. One loan is in forbearance, and I've been in communication some with one of the kids, now grown. The other I could legally transfer to the other grown kid's name. It's complicated, family issues don't you know.
But whatever happens on that front, I will definitely have this at the ready. And have some fun with it while I'm at it. Why not? Isn't toppling empires supposed to be fun?
Out of curiosity, I also requested my mpn after checking the student aid website and finding absolutely nothing. I emailed Nelnet, and they kindly referred me to go find it myself on the student aid site.... 🧐🤔🧐
I have a court order that states the Department of Education/Nelnet doesn’t have a valid claim on me, yet they keep trying to collect and now all 4 CRs are reporting me late. I have sent Notices Of Intent to Sue to all of them, 30 day time limit, 21 days ago (certified mail return receipt signage required) and so far their only response by 2 of the CRs is “we have received your dispute” but nothing more. I will be filing in federal court in 10 more days on any defendants who haven’t settled with me. Causes of Action include FCRA against the CRSs (2 years of monthly reporting on 8 credit lines), FDCPA and fraud against Nelnet. I would be pleased to keep you updated on this if you would like me to. Western District Of Arkansas.
Err, showing that a loan was disbursed merely shows that a payment was made. It says nothing about why or on what basis the payment was made. In particular it does not show that the recipient is indebted to the payee.
You can not relieve student debt through bankruptcy accept in very very rare circumstances that never ever happen.
As I understand it, student loans with the US Department of Education as Guarantor are not allowed to be dismissed in bankruptcy proceedings.
FYI, you can download your MPN from studentaid.gov. Your servicer doesn't have it.
Additionally, as of right now, only those who are in default are going to be sent to collections. Those who are in forbearance aren't, but payments are supposed to resume soon. While I don't trust anything the administration says and it's all a slippery slope, it's important to note that those who are in forbearance but not default are "ok"... for now.
Thanks for the post though - I finally went and downloaded mine along with a bunch of other related records.
I have tried and cannot. They do not have it.
When I worked in collections it was a rule of they can't get a hold of you and your untraceable they can't do anything until they do get a hold of you .. So no such number ...no such phone rule works as well as just say I don't know that person ....wrong number . Or even say I've told you before I don't know who this is . And just got this # a couple of weeks ago . Then see if they really know what their even doing or know your debt amts
If you really want to get documents from the Federal Givernment a FOIA request usually works best for me.
Yep. Did that. Nothing. :)